1 00:00:38,209 --> 00:00:21,550 [Music] 2 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:40,700 greetings you're listening to the 3 00:00:46,099 --> 00:00:43,410 paranormal UK radio network the UK's 4 00:00:48,310 --> 00:00:46,109 biggest paranormal Network I'm David 5 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:48,320 Young and this is paranormal dimensions 6 00:00:53,869 --> 00:00:50,850 now on this show I'm going to make no 7 00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:53,879 apologies I've got a very good friend on 8 00:01:00,920 --> 00:00:58,250 that on the line here John Henson either 9 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:00,930 in my mind he's probably run as a bit 10 00:01:06,139 --> 00:01:03,809 the UK's best UFO researchers he's 11 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:06,149 responsible for writing the haunted 12 00:01:12,410 --> 00:01:08,670 skies books which is like a history of 13 00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:12,420 the unit of the UFO books and rip well 14 00:01:16,309 --> 00:01:14,100 really usher didn't even get on and tell 15 00:01:19,910 --> 00:01:16,319 you all about that so hello John Henson 16 00:01:22,130 --> 00:01:19,920 oh good afternoon to you David how are 17 00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:22,140 you doing all right if I might blow up 18 00:01:33,469 --> 00:01:26,880 in those trees try not to fall over 19 00:01:37,100 --> 00:01:33,479 again I actually just contacted the 20 00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:37,110 local village Magdalene here because 21 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:41,970 they they did a article on well UFOs 22 00:01:46,369 --> 00:01:43,770 that they've done someone me before to 23 00:01:49,249 --> 00:01:46,379 be fair but the last one was about six 24 00:01:52,279 --> 00:01:49,259 months ago and it was a number of 25 00:01:56,169 --> 00:01:52,289 strange lights seen over the Cala tea 26 00:01:59,059 --> 00:01:56,179 about six or seven miles from here and 27 00:02:02,089 --> 00:01:59,069 you know the usual thing that you use 28 00:02:04,999 --> 00:02:02,099 your skeptical stuff about it and pee 29 00:02:08,570 --> 00:02:05,009 taking the aliens are invading and I 30 00:02:11,390 --> 00:02:08,580 felt that was I felt like should that 31 00:02:14,750 --> 00:02:11,400 needed a rebuttal although I can't 32 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:14,760 as our friend Charles Holt would say I 33 00:02:20,830 --> 00:02:17,580 can't say where these things are from or 34 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:20,840 what they are but the evidence is 35 00:02:25,369 --> 00:02:22,290 indisputable 36 00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:25,379 from from so many people that have seen 37 00:02:31,309 --> 00:02:29,190 so many things going back to what keep 38 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:31,319 going back so many years now you know he 39 00:02:35,540 --> 00:02:33,330 says yeah like there's a bit luck with 40 00:02:36,949 --> 00:02:35,550 ages and even further back isn't it it 41 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:36,959 goes yeah if you really want to take it 42 00:02:43,009 --> 00:02:38,330 that far 43 00:02:47,380 --> 00:02:43,019 well this is true I remember every now 44 00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:47,390 and then there's a surge or a wave of 45 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:51,480 procrastination by you know in Hugh 46 00:02:57,619 --> 00:02:54,530 yes they're interested in UFOs and 47 00:03:00,979 --> 00:02:57,629 obviously try and convince me that 48 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:00,989 triangular UFOs which of course that 49 00:03:08,030 --> 00:03:04,769 came to came to light in the 1980s their 50 00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:08,040 famous Belgium wave try and tell me that 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:11,430 it's a covert top-secret aircraft well 52 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:14,730 all I can say is that first Awards I 53 00:03:20,690 --> 00:03:17,040 cannot prove or disprove well I can 54 00:03:22,850 --> 00:03:20,700 prove is the identical things that have 55 00:03:28,150 --> 00:03:22,860 been seen you know going back to the 56 00:03:31,130 --> 00:03:28,160 13th and 14th century and in my opinion 57 00:03:35,210 --> 00:03:31,140 you know you can't explain them away 58 00:03:37,309 --> 00:03:35,220 under a myriad of explanations as as 59 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:37,319 people offer you know they won't 60 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:40,310 believes or fireballs or meteorites and 61 00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:43,500 you know the term UFO wasn't wasn't 62 00:03:48,589 --> 00:03:45,329 known then but I'm convinced if there 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:48,599 was an Internet a few hundred years ago 64 00:03:55,430 --> 00:03:53,370 we would be absolutely weighted under 65 00:03:57,530 --> 00:03:55,440 with the amount of sightings that 66 00:04:00,670 --> 00:03:57,540 clearly well most of them would have 67 00:04:03,949 --> 00:04:00,680 been UFOs because he couldn't even fly 68 00:04:05,479 --> 00:04:03,959 but all they had to do to recall them 69 00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:05,489 them was just menu scripts and those 70 00:04:10,699 --> 00:04:09,060 things or maybe cave drawings in a cave 71 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:10,709 drawings you write our friend and 72 00:04:14,449 --> 00:04:12,510 somebody was telling me actually assume 73 00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:14,459 he was chatting to me about von Daniken 74 00:04:19,940 --> 00:04:16,320 the other day and I said that we'd met 75 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:19,950 up with him and he'd he'd kindly give an 76 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:22,590 endorsement to the books I think after 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:32,170 perseverance is the word you very kindly 78 00:04:41,060 --> 00:04:36,810 you know he got in touching them again 79 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:41,070 and this is the thing you see I do say 80 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:45,210 to a lot of people you know I don't make 81 00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:47,310 any money out of this I wish I did oh 82 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:49,740 I've been the first now I know you've 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:52,650 told me several years yeah but I but I 84 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:53,970 put it down to the fact that 85 00:04:59,600 --> 00:04:56,210 unfortunately we live in an age where 86 00:05:03,239 --> 00:04:59,610 people that you know when I say people 87 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:05,549 that-that-that's that small group of 88 00:05:11,369 --> 00:05:08,769 enthusiasts is a small group comparison 89 00:05:13,619 --> 00:05:11,379 to the general public the general public 90 00:05:16,469 --> 00:05:13,629 got their own preconceived if you like 91 00:05:21,289 --> 00:05:16,479 misconceptions about UFOs but within our 92 00:05:24,299 --> 00:05:21,299 small encampment if you like you know 93 00:05:28,739 --> 00:05:24,309 there is a problem in my opinion because 94 00:05:30,899 --> 00:05:28,749 so many people you know they they either 95 00:05:33,299 --> 00:05:30,909 believe in black or white which we 96 00:05:35,399 --> 00:05:33,309 discussed before about whether they're 97 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:35,409 alien spaceships or not or covert 98 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:38,649 top-secret technological crap I just 99 00:05:45,149 --> 00:05:41,889 don't know but yeah all I've thought to 100 00:05:48,629 --> 00:05:45,159 do and and now seeing so many of these 101 00:05:51,919 --> 00:05:48,639 guys pass away at not only the witnesses 102 00:05:55,729 --> 00:05:51,929 but UFO researchers like Omar Fowler 103 00:05:58,409 --> 00:05:55,739 what a smashing bloke he he was and 104 00:06:02,729 --> 00:05:58,419 people like even people like Dennis 105 00:06:06,059 --> 00:06:02,739 Plunkett Margaret Westwood and others so 106 00:06:09,739 --> 00:06:06,069 many so many others I feel that I have 107 00:06:15,179 --> 00:06:09,749 to at least to the best of my ability 108 00:06:17,789 --> 00:06:15,189 produce a record of not only what the 109 00:06:19,769 --> 00:06:17,799 witnesses have seen but but you know the 110 00:06:23,669 --> 00:06:19,779 achievements made by those very 111 00:06:27,419 --> 00:06:23,679 important researchers so that's why I'm 112 00:06:29,939 --> 00:06:27,429 doing it for and certainly if I did 113 00:06:33,479 --> 00:06:29,949 something like that for money and fame 114 00:06:36,269 --> 00:06:33,489 I'd be sat on my yacht but unfortunately 115 00:06:39,029 --> 00:06:36,279 I'm not and I don't hold that against 116 00:06:41,729 --> 00:06:39,039 well I do because I find it fascinating 117 00:06:44,309 --> 00:06:41,739 and I think I mentioned to you an X 118 00:06:46,619 --> 00:06:44,319 count so I came the other day and she 119 00:06:48,989 --> 00:06:46,629 spoke to me about something she 120 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:48,999 witnessed and was was warned and 121 00:06:53,459 --> 00:06:50,649 threatened which is all part of the 122 00:06:55,519 --> 00:06:53,469 territory or it was part of the charity 123 00:06:57,989 --> 00:06:55,529 I don't think happens so much now but 124 00:07:00,269 --> 00:06:57,999 yeah that's that's that's where I'm 125 00:07:04,039 --> 00:07:00,279 coming from and I'm buggered if I 126 00:07:09,269 --> 00:07:06,989 just I suppose really I suppose we ought 127 00:07:12,059 --> 00:07:09,279 to go back to the beginning so how you 128 00:07:14,009 --> 00:07:12,069 really got into it and started deciding 129 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:14,019 to write books I guess it's probably the 130 00:07:18,790 --> 00:07:15,710 best way to start what it is 131 00:07:23,350 --> 00:07:18,800 the strange thing is that when I retired 132 00:07:25,270 --> 00:07:23,360 from the Schwartz in 1995 my son was 133 00:07:30,940 --> 00:07:25,280 dead in the force they would he just 134 00:07:33,790 --> 00:07:30,950 joined up actually as as a special and 135 00:07:35,530 --> 00:07:33,800 as I say when I retired I I used to 136 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:35,540 leave it and I used to either I've got a 137 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:37,130 metal detector you should like to go out 138 00:07:41,740 --> 00:07:39,170 metal detecting just like to go out and 139 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:41,750 dig you still like to go to Victorian 140 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:43,610 tips as well because that fascinates me 141 00:07:47,950 --> 00:07:46,190 delving through history oh yeah and the 142 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:47,960 amount of stuff that the Victorians 143 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:51,530 chucked away I mean these tips are not 144 00:07:59,590 --> 00:07:54,290 easy to get to now but I can assure you 145 00:08:01,270 --> 00:07:59,600 that they are very exciting because you 146 00:08:04,210 --> 00:08:01,280 never know what you're going to find and 147 00:08:09,370 --> 00:08:04,220 I used to dig up bottles enjoyed that 148 00:08:13,210 --> 00:08:09,380 and then as I say the my son was 149 00:08:15,910 --> 00:08:13,220 directed to he was then oh sorry was a 150 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:15,920 special beginning but in 95 he was a 151 00:08:21,370 --> 00:08:18,140 police constable of just a few months 152 00:08:25,030 --> 00:08:21,380 experience and he was directed to a 153 00:08:28,630 --> 00:08:25,040 porter report on the 16th or it could 154 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:28,640 have been a 92 January 1995 he was a 19 155 00:08:35,380 --> 00:08:33,350 and 6:40 p.m. and following a number of 156 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:35,390 reports of things over the Birmingham 157 00:08:41,950 --> 00:08:39,050 city centre he went to a place called 158 00:08:45,010 --> 00:08:41,960 Moseley and interviewed a doctor drove a 159 00:08:49,690 --> 00:08:45,020 short distance away and him and the 160 00:08:52,990 --> 00:08:49,700 police woman saw this elliptical object 161 00:08:57,430 --> 00:08:53,000 hovering over some trees with a blue 162 00:09:00,730 --> 00:08:57,440 field around it and a red a red glow in 163 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:00,740 the centre and a bit like as I said to 164 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:04,610 him a cheeseburger but he was he could 165 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:07,010 not believe that he was seeing this and 166 00:09:14,010 --> 00:09:10,030 to be honest at that point in time I 167 00:09:16,510 --> 00:09:14,020 regarded such reports as ridiculous I 168 00:09:19,470 --> 00:09:16,520 you know it's hard isn't it that it 169 00:09:23,590 --> 00:09:19,480 takes something like that a trigger to 170 00:09:26,350 --> 00:09:23,600 to open one's eyes and prior to them as 171 00:09:28,210 --> 00:09:26,360 far as I was concerned this is the this 172 00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:28,220 is well it's now that I was in 21st 173 00:09:32,650 --> 00:09:28,880 century 174 00:09:37,030 --> 00:09:32,660 but I suppose the annoying part about it 175 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:37,040 is that um children UFOs aren't on the 176 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:39,470 curriculum but but but children don't 177 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:43,970 have an idea about what as well has gone 178 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:47,210 on again I'm I'm reiterating I don't 179 00:09:51,220 --> 00:09:48,650 know what these things are and I don't 180 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:51,230 know where they come from but it but it 181 00:09:57,340 --> 00:09:54,050 it does form pile of our history all 182 00:09:58,690 --> 00:09:57,350 about culture but it comes as a big as I 183 00:10:00,700 --> 00:09:58,700 say it comes as a bit of a shock when 184 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:00,710 you find you're on the other side of you 185 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:02,450 you're one of the crazies they're on you 186 00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:04,310 when you suddenly find that you're the 187 00:10:10,030 --> 00:10:07,040 one that believes in the UFOs or ghosts 188 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:10,040 or whatever it is it's a comes that you 189 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:13,490 come across you become you know on the 190 00:10:21,730 --> 00:10:15,350 other side basically you get people take 191 00:10:25,150 --> 00:10:21,740 the Pierre of you don't you do you can't 192 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:25,160 get away from the fact that so many 193 00:10:32,260 --> 00:10:28,490 people I've seen these things and that 194 00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:32,270 predominantly that there is familiarity 195 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:37,220 between so many sightings you know going 196 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:42,380 back to the early 1940s where most a 197 00:10:47,470 --> 00:10:44,650 number of witnesses will describe seeing 198 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:47,480 three lights in the sky three lights 199 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:49,370 forming a triangle but one of the lights 200 00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:53,720 will shoot off now to me that that 201 00:10:58,930 --> 00:10:55,520 negates the fact that it could have been 202 00:11:01,090 --> 00:10:58,940 some covert top-secret aircraft back in 203 00:11:03,730 --> 00:11:01,100 the early 40s or something the Germans 204 00:11:06,580 --> 00:11:03,740 have got but they're gone 205 00:11:09,490 --> 00:11:06,590 sorry as I say you've got to get that so 206 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:09,500 possibility a chance well it may well 207 00:11:13,570 --> 00:11:11,990 the human cannot fit all the cases you 208 00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:13,580 see it can't hmm 209 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:16,880 and that's that's an insult really to 210 00:11:21,730 --> 00:11:19,610 all of these witnesses I mean oddly 211 00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,740 enough in front of me I've got I mean 212 00:11:26,110 --> 00:11:23,120 this guy's long gone 213 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:26,120 David Proctor but he was a friend of Roy 214 00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,050 lakes and most I think Roy is retired 215 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:32,480 from it now he lives in Barking in Essex 216 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:35,570 but there is something from him from 217 00:11:42,610 --> 00:11:38,330 London UFO studies and he says and this 218 00:11:45,220 --> 00:11:42,620 is probably what 74 probably seven 219 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:45,230 five nice saying we note the lack of 220 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:48,950 serious attention paid a subject in much 221 00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:51,530 of the media and note with some alarm 222 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:53,660 the amount of time the subject is you 223 00:11:59,740 --> 00:11:57,200 Cindy to fill a space or else simply to 224 00:12:02,350 --> 00:11:59,750 poke fun in our general direction 225 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:02,360 London UFO studies are determined to 226 00:12:06,970 --> 00:12:04,670 prove to all interested party that UFOs 227 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:06,980 per se are real and not figments of a 228 00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:09,890 fevered imagination nor hoaxes the 229 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:12,200 general public such as they are have a 230 00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:14,210 right to know what is above them in the 231 00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:17,030 skies but of course the general public 232 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:20,270 is not told about any of this really are 233 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:24,290 they no no I mean the but but as I say 234 00:12:29,170 --> 00:12:26,530 going back to the the thing with the 235 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:29,180 only if they want a sensational story to 236 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:31,300 take the the mickey out of usual well 237 00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:36,490 we've seen with so much to do with 238 00:12:43,420 --> 00:12:41,510 Colonel halt hmm that so many people and 239 00:12:46,180 --> 00:12:43,430 without specifically I'm not going to 240 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:46,190 name individuals it would be well uh I 241 00:12:51,420 --> 00:12:48,530 don't feel today's the right time but 242 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:51,430 people have made such preposterous 243 00:12:59,740 --> 00:12:55,850 stories and have come forward for years 244 00:13:02,560 --> 00:12:59,750 what's forty years later now yeah and 245 00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:02,570 the thing is Colonel Holt was deputy 246 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:06,260 base commander at the base and he is 247 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:09,170 never heard of these people you know you 248 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:13,250 know so that never stopped happening but 249 00:13:17,980 --> 00:13:15,110 of course as I found out with the whole 250 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:17,990 perspective they were not interested in 251 00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:20,510 said the media was not interested in in 252 00:13:27,370 --> 00:13:24,190 serious research all that book at all 253 00:13:31,630 --> 00:13:27,380 what they canceled on concentrated on 254 00:13:34,150 --> 00:13:31,640 was wild stories but of course it's so 255 00:13:38,290 --> 00:13:34,160 disappointing for me that there you know 256 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:38,300 a few looks at something I know you say 257 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:42,050 a million cuttings obviously it would be 258 00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:44,090 a billion cuttings about UFOs but out of 259 00:13:49,630 --> 00:13:46,310 those million cuttings you can bet your 260 00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:49,640 bottom dollar that 99% of those cuttings 261 00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:52,070 would be taking the proverbial pee out 262 00:13:57,700 --> 00:13:54,590 of there out of the UFO witness 263 00:14:00,550 --> 00:13:57,710 is out of the UFO researchers and you 264 00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:00,560 have to ask yourself a question why why 265 00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:04,160 is this being allowed to happen you know 266 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:07,100 I mean I'm I just don't understand it I 267 00:14:14,980 --> 00:14:10,610 mean you yourself probably feel that 268 00:14:17,170 --> 00:14:14,990 that that this this this phenomena it 269 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:17,180 should be given far more it should be 270 00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:20,090 treated far more seriously but then I 271 00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:23,960 suppose I'm not defending that fact but 272 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:25,700 maybe people would be frightened or 273 00:14:31,390 --> 00:14:28,130 worried I don't know yeah I mean I can 274 00:14:33,670 --> 00:14:31,400 all I know is the one that I saw in 67 275 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:33,680 which I which to me was not anything 276 00:14:38,550 --> 00:14:35,900 that was of this earth it was a big 277 00:14:41,020 --> 00:14:38,560 orange object going across the sky and 278 00:14:43,210 --> 00:14:41,030 it was just nothing around at that time 279 00:14:44,620 --> 00:14:43,220 that could explain it you know it was 280 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:44,630 doing it was completely silent and I've 281 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:47,810 told you about and then I found out that 282 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:49,850 it's quite a common occurrence these big 283 00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:55,130 orange elliptical no at the time but I 284 00:14:59,800 --> 00:14:56,870 started seeing a lot of reports and they 285 00:15:01,180 --> 00:14:59,810 were a lot of reports were orange it 286 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:01,190 could have been I mean it was an oval 287 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:03,800 object for the straight that I saw but 288 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:07,490 it could well have been an oval object 289 00:15:13,510 --> 00:15:09,250 it was like an X shape 290 00:15:20,380 --> 00:15:13,520 type of object it could well have been a 291 00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:20,390 saucer shape explain what it was it 292 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:22,040 wasn't like a bright light it was like 293 00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:26,450 an incandescent or inside my head there 294 00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:29,660 but the fact that from a different angle 295 00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:33,110 either from the witness's perspective or 296 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:35,780 the way that it moves and rotates and 297 00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:38,840 whatever you can get different shapes to 298 00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:42,200 it yeah but I could look flat or it 299 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:43,550 could look round couldn't it yeah if 300 00:15:49,210 --> 00:15:45,020 you've got something that's over that's 301 00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:49,220 like that it's and I suppose even if 302 00:15:54,910 --> 00:15:52,880 it's a it might not even be around this 303 00:15:57,820 --> 00:15:54,920 object anyway it could have for other 304 00:16:00,010 --> 00:15:57,830 appendages depending on whatever angle 305 00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:00,020 it's at well I'm going to say to you 306 00:16:07,060 --> 00:16:04,820 because pretty crazy but I wonder if 307 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:07,070 these whatever these things are I mean 308 00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:09,110 they're marking natural phenomena there 309 00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:12,560 might be another type of indigenous 310 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:17,360 species that actually that picks up on 311 00:16:25,270 --> 00:16:23,690 on electromagnetic magnetic waves how do 312 00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:25,280 you know it doesn't even pick up on 313 00:16:30,340 --> 00:16:29,060 human beings I don't know what it said 314 00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:30,350 on other shows I mean this is what I 315 00:16:34,180 --> 00:16:32,030 caught this shows obsolete a few times 316 00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:34,190 they have people get fed up they're 317 00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:35,990 paranoid the paranormal dimensions I 318 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:37,460 almost think maybe some of these things 319 00:16:40,890 --> 00:16:39,710 do come through different dimensions as 320 00:16:44,620 --> 00:16:40,900 well you know not just all 321 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:44,630 extraterrestrial but I thought what your 322 00:16:51,790 --> 00:16:46,730 view is on that John I mean that's well 323 00:16:54,130 --> 00:16:51,800 I I used to believe originally there was 324 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:54,140 a vast difference between a paranormal 325 00:16:59,770 --> 00:16:56,510 and the UFO phenomena and there could be 326 00:17:02,140 --> 00:16:59,780 but certainly enough i witnessed like 327 00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:02,150 yourself some restraint things in 328 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:04,820 Rendlesham forest so because they're on 329 00:17:08,110 --> 00:17:06,410 the ground are they paranormal but 330 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:08,120 because they fly across the sky are the 331 00:17:13,690 --> 00:17:11,090 UFO or flying saucers or whatever you 332 00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:13,700 want to wanna call and but because the 333 00:17:19,780 --> 00:17:16,720 paranormal means out to the normal well 334 00:17:23,610 --> 00:17:19,790 the trouble is you get involved as much 335 00:17:26,590 --> 00:17:23,620 as I've done with this stuff you wonder 336 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:26,600 what is the normal and what is out of 337 00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:32,210 the normal just just how many thousands 338 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:36,800 of sightings of strange objects but in 339 00:17:44,590 --> 00:17:40,510 the main you know so much has been lost 340 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:44,600 from our history so that's that's that's 341 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:48,650 what I'm trying to do but it is an 342 00:17:57,790 --> 00:17:53,290 incredible subject and again I I suppose 343 00:18:01,000 --> 00:17:57,800 probably I I refer to Rendlesham because 344 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:01,010 I probably got more it takes me 10 times 345 00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:02,810 longer to do a book like the whole 346 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:05,360 perspective to then it would do on a 347 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:07,400 normal would because with a normal book 348 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:11,330 it's it's fairly straightforward I've 349 00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:13,040 obviously asked some research has to be 350 00:18:20,019 --> 00:18:16,220 conducted into it but with the the 351 00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:20,029 the the Rendlesham stuff it's so I know 352 00:18:25,930 --> 00:18:22,340 that the press regarded as Britain's 353 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:25,940 Roswell but the you know and they seem 354 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:28,730 to ignore everything else but to be fair 355 00:18:37,539 --> 00:18:31,730 there is so much stuff involved with the 356 00:18:40,869 --> 00:18:37,549 Rendlesham case and well only recently 357 00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:40,879 we we discussed a situation where 358 00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:44,240 somebody had done some superficial 359 00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:48,230 research and wanted to publish something 360 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:52,070 on it and didn't contact Colonel Holt 361 00:18:56,619 --> 00:18:53,690 and the matter was brought to the 362 00:18:59,470 --> 00:18:56,629 attention the colonel who then contacted 363 00:19:01,480 --> 00:18:59,480 me and said he hoped to advise the 364 00:19:04,450 --> 00:19:01,490 gentleman accordingly but it appears 365 00:19:06,669 --> 00:19:04,460 nothing was going to change so in other 366 00:19:09,129 --> 00:19:06,679 words it was going to be another slice 367 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:09,139 of the Rendlesham pipe but before people 368 00:19:13,389 --> 00:19:11,809 so they could decide whether it was that 369 00:19:15,940 --> 00:19:13,399 good old lighthouse 370 00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:15,950 yeah or whether it was a UFO whatever 371 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:18,320 the hell our UFO is so from somebody 372 00:19:24,190 --> 00:19:19,250 nobody's ever heard of 373 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:24,200 well yeah but how many times that maybe 374 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:26,210 people think it's and well people do 375 00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:28,850 think it's an opportunity to make a fast 376 00:19:34,419 --> 00:19:32,720 book because they don't realize that so 377 00:19:36,879 --> 00:19:34,429 many people out there I've heard the 378 00:19:39,399 --> 00:19:36,889 same old story and don't know don't mean 379 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:39,409 to be derogatory but it isn't just about 380 00:19:43,659 --> 00:19:41,450 what happened over those few nights I 381 00:19:46,779 --> 00:19:43,669 mean I found quite a number of new 382 00:19:48,249 --> 00:19:46,789 witnesses because you can't get away 383 00:19:50,649 --> 00:19:48,259 from the fact that if you've got a 384 00:19:53,769 --> 00:19:50,659 witness who described seeing something 385 00:19:56,590 --> 00:19:53,779 similar or not similar in the case to 386 00:19:57,820 --> 00:19:56,600 what what was seen at Rendlesham well 387 00:19:59,980 --> 00:19:57,830 then that's corroboration 388 00:20:01,930 --> 00:19:59,990 it's corroboration of the fact that 389 00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:01,940 something somebody else has seen 390 00:20:06,369 --> 00:20:03,830 something and it's important you put 391 00:20:08,499 --> 00:20:06,379 that down and as we've seen if you take 392 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:08,509 all this corroboration out if you take 393 00:20:13,659 --> 00:20:11,090 other accounts out if you take this and 394 00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,669 that as we saw at the BBC one when we 395 00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:15,200 did the walk in the forest there with 396 00:20:20,619 --> 00:20:18,769 the BBC if you take all of this out wait 397 00:20:22,990 --> 00:20:20,629 you've got really bugger all and you 398 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:23,000 just got that back to the same old hot 399 00:20:30,129 --> 00:20:27,250 potato stuff you know and then people 400 00:20:34,090 --> 00:20:30,139 people unfortunately don't realize just 401 00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:34,100 how much has gone I mean I well I've 402 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:36,169 done with this book I provided a 403 00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:40,490 timeline because it's important it would 404 00:20:47,109 --> 00:20:45,230 be impossible to put her want to doing 405 00:20:49,659 --> 00:20:47,119 that in the next whole perspective but I 406 00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,669 mean I have invited Chuck to give 407 00:20:56,289 --> 00:20:52,240 various comments about specific cases 408 00:20:59,649 --> 00:20:56,299 which he has done before we get up to I 409 00:21:02,200 --> 00:20:59,659 think part 2 would be the 1980 P the new 410 00:21:05,019 --> 00:21:02,210 witnesses and then part three would be 411 00:21:07,269 --> 00:21:05,029 the rebuttals of which you and I ain't 412 00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:07,279 even got there yes although I've got no 413 00:21:18,490 --> 00:21:15,860 mate I'm just gonna build yeah I think 414 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:18,500 I'll feel all to jump in because there's 415 00:21:21,820 --> 00:21:19,850 gonna be people here at the listing that 416 00:21:24,190 --> 00:21:21,830 will to talk about the whole perspective 417 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:24,200 if she's the book you wrote with John 418 00:21:31,659 --> 00:21:28,129 Holt and sort of where did that actually 419 00:21:33,369 --> 00:21:31,669 start because what I'll do on my 420 00:21:35,499 --> 00:21:33,379 Facebook page I've got the Dora 421 00:21:36,879 --> 00:21:35,509 paranormal dimensions page or we 422 00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:36,889 actually put links to all these books 423 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:46,460 and explain that you wanted to write his 424 00:22:04,379 --> 00:21:55,850 own story I hope his name he was gonna 425 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:19,090 yeah and I think I want to say great 426 00:22:23,499 --> 00:22:21,110 woody case I've got it wrong but she was 427 00:22:25,749 --> 00:22:23,509 saying yeah I thought about row because 428 00:22:28,779 --> 00:22:25,759 they were the ones that from the news of 429 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:28,789 the world oh well I wasn't too happy 430 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:31,369 with that with the involvement of 431 00:22:39,269 --> 00:22:35,570 certain people and accordingly in think 432 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:39,279 1989 he has to be relieved of the legal 433 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:41,080 responsibilities of right 434 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:43,210 a book with them because I was email 435 00:22:53,239 --> 00:22:46,809 here somewhere and so that never cracked 436 00:22:57,060 --> 00:22:53,249 off and I just wish I just wish in a way 437 00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:57,070 that the book these but well I've done 438 00:23:02,340 --> 00:22:58,480 that I've shot myself in the foot right 439 00:23:05,580 --> 00:23:02,350 because I only make a couple of pounds a 440 00:23:08,369 --> 00:23:05,590 book because I I naively thought well I 441 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:08,379 still I would still do it I you know I 442 00:23:15,269 --> 00:23:11,590 wanted to provide as much information I 443 00:23:17,669 --> 00:23:15,279 am as many pages and as many college 444 00:23:19,139 --> 00:23:17,679 illustrations for the reader because I 445 00:23:20,639 --> 00:23:19,149 thought that was welcome guarantee you 446 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:20,649 succeeded in it because we're talking 447 00:23:25,109 --> 00:23:22,710 about getting off of 900 pages on well 448 00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:25,119 yeah you're right I think a thousand 449 00:23:29,159 --> 00:23:27,460 images but then you think you sit back 450 00:23:31,739 --> 00:23:29,169 and you don't think oh wow I'm gonna 451 00:23:34,739 --> 00:23:31,749 make a lot of money because I don't do 452 00:23:37,859 --> 00:23:34,749 it for that but what I do it no they get 453 00:23:40,229 --> 00:23:37,869 something back but of course um we 454 00:23:42,450 --> 00:23:40,239 publishing that this this two ways of 455 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:42,460 doing it you can either do what my 456 00:23:49,289 --> 00:23:46,570 esteemed colleague does Phil a film and 457 00:23:53,479 --> 00:23:49,299 for and he uploads you straight through 458 00:23:56,519 --> 00:23:53,489 to Amazon so they'll convert the the 459 00:23:59,700 --> 00:23:56,529 Microsoft Word document to a PDF and 460 00:24:02,070 --> 00:23:59,710 then that's that's the way he goes well 461 00:24:05,249 --> 00:24:02,080 honey there's an excellent job but I 462 00:24:07,379 --> 00:24:05,259 suppose I'm a little bit old-fashioned 463 00:24:10,830 --> 00:24:07,389 because there are so many images and 464 00:24:13,499 --> 00:24:10,840 because there's so much a depth to it I 465 00:24:16,019 --> 00:24:13,509 I like to get it typeset because then I 466 00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:16,029 can see it as it goes along the course 467 00:24:22,979 --> 00:24:18,609 and typesetting cost something like one 468 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:22,989 pound 20 or 30 pence a page so you you 469 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:25,690 just mentioned 900 pages yeah you're 470 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:26,980 talking about quality you're talking 471 00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:28,720 about a ground before it goes anywhere 472 00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:30,700 then there's the cost of registry 473 00:24:35,849 --> 00:24:33,279 there's also other costs involved and 474 00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:35,859 then you know the book probably makes 475 00:24:41,669 --> 00:24:38,799 that I probably three or four quid if at 476 00:24:45,869 --> 00:24:41,679 a book so you need a hell of a lot of 477 00:24:48,389 --> 00:24:45,879 books and of course I am mindful of the 478 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:48,399 fact that the Chuck is a co-author so in 479 00:24:53,789 --> 00:24:51,490 the past I've given him some money when 480 00:24:57,450 --> 00:24:53,799 I can but it clearly 481 00:25:00,210 --> 00:24:57,460 each its it I mean somebody the other 482 00:25:01,769 --> 00:25:00,220 day suggested I contact to publish and 483 00:25:03,930 --> 00:25:01,779 ask them to republish the whole 484 00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:03,940 perspective because a big mainstream 485 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:05,769 publish will make a lot of money 486 00:25:11,879 --> 00:25:08,710 probably for themselves not me 487 00:25:13,649 --> 00:25:11,889 but Jesus said and done I mean if your 488 00:25:17,180 --> 00:25:13,659 names on it John you should but you 489 00:25:19,889 --> 00:25:17,190 wrote is hell bit so well yes but I 490 00:25:23,129 --> 00:25:19,899 again I I don't want the heart back to 491 00:25:29,029 --> 00:25:23,139 the early days where I lost six volumes 492 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:29,039 because I know other guys in our 493 00:25:37,859 --> 00:25:33,570 business now come and and Phil and 494 00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:37,869 others have been I've had problems shall 495 00:25:43,710 --> 00:25:41,409 we say their previous no I had a big 496 00:25:47,299 --> 00:25:43,720 problem because it wasn't the fact that 497 00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:47,309 six books were taken off and I I i I've 498 00:25:55,409 --> 00:25:51,820 redone those six books in four four 499 00:25:58,590 --> 00:25:55,419 revised volumes and I haven't even got a 500 00:26:00,539 --> 00:25:58,600 copy the fights volume for yet but I did 501 00:26:02,399 --> 00:26:00,549 that but of course the six books were 502 00:26:05,549 --> 00:26:02,409 lost well it wasn't just six books that 503 00:26:08,369 --> 00:26:05,559 were lost it was six books it was nearly 504 00:26:10,499 --> 00:26:08,379 three thousand pounds plus traveling 505 00:26:18,090 --> 00:26:10,509 backwards forwards for two years and 506 00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:18,100 Patty all that research research yes all 507 00:26:28,159 --> 00:26:20,230 that time was nothing so I know anything 508 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:28,169 right yeah yes yes and suffice to say I 509 00:26:32,789 --> 00:26:30,730 ended up taking that guy to court and 510 00:26:34,379 --> 00:26:32,799 getting him a CCJ but I should have gone 511 00:26:36,989 --> 00:26:34,389 to a higher court and got a lot more 512 00:26:38,970 --> 00:26:36,999 money back but I know some people would 513 00:26:41,999 --> 00:26:38,980 say well what's done is done whether it 514 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:42,009 is done but it still irks one and you 515 00:26:46,289 --> 00:26:43,809 know where I'm coming from there because 516 00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:46,299 those are single hooks and and again as 517 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:48,609 you just said six books gone four books 518 00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:51,129 have to be redone in color twice as much 519 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:54,100 work so that again has cost time and 520 00:27:01,470 --> 00:26:58,450 money and the annoying part is that I 521 00:27:05,759 --> 00:27:01,480 cannot get it I can't get the marketed 522 00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:05,769 you see I cannot get I can't get the mug 523 00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:08,070 that in all the time 524 00:27:13,180 --> 00:27:09,600 I've been doing this the only thing I've 525 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:13,190 ever had in a national was the Betty 526 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:17,010 Betty turban Betty driver coronations 527 00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:19,650 doing lady because I was friendly with 528 00:27:24,170 --> 00:27:21,870 her and her sister Frieda Frieda was the 529 00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:24,180 paranormal one if you like the psychic 530 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:28,020 one that's the only thing I've ever had 531 00:27:36,110 --> 00:27:32,610 and when the first book Volume one came 532 00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:36,120 about in 2010 was it also linked with 533 00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:40,820 God that's eight years ago I foolishly 534 00:27:47,810 --> 00:27:43,350 contacted all the Nationals and they all 535 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:47,820 asked for a book gotten even more money 536 00:27:54,010 --> 00:27:50,640 you needed yeah so I'm reluctant only 537 00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:54,020 recently about some very charming 538 00:27:58,220 --> 00:27:56,310 representatives of the press contact me 539 00:28:01,460 --> 00:27:58,230 and entered all manner of conversation 540 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:01,470 very enthusiastic about getting me on 541 00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:04,680 the BBC radio stations but they they 542 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:08,340 want the books now Ken a whole if you 543 00:28:14,390 --> 00:28:10,110 like the whole book as we call it and 544 00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:14,400 you know that that costs me something 545 00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:16,980 like about twenty nine thirty quid I 546 00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:20,040 mean that's something to thirty-five but 547 00:28:25,820 --> 00:28:22,140 bearing in mind I have to split that 548 00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:25,830 which of the profits but I'm saying that 549 00:28:30,860 --> 00:28:28,470 people don't like they don't want to buy 550 00:28:32,510 --> 00:28:30,870 the books yeah well when you think about 551 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:32,520 the effort that's gone into that job and 552 00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:34,050 you gonna get sort of a lot of three 553 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:42,660 quid up a copy it's it's not only the 554 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:45,930 whole book the Wiltshire book you see I 555 00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:50,490 used to go 1996 I owe and macros and 556 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:52,760 thought was to Wiltjer Silbury Hill 557 00:28:59,480 --> 00:28:56,730 Avery Stonehenge interviewed hundreds of 558 00:29:01,610 --> 00:28:59,490 people and have all their accounts 559 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:01,620 written chronologically in the Wiltshire 560 00:29:08,660 --> 00:29:05,250 book and nobody buys the wheelchair book 561 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:08,670 at all which is so strange and I did 562 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:17,810 what yeah I don't understand no I can't 563 00:29:21,299 --> 00:29:20,130 understand it because these books should 564 00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:21,309 really I mean 565 00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:23,200 she said the amount of work I've spent 566 00:29:28,259 --> 00:29:25,830 nights on Silbury alive interviewed I 567 00:29:31,739 --> 00:29:28,269 think these things coming he made man 568 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:31,749 made man which was a group there they 569 00:29:37,379 --> 00:29:33,370 were on the hill and this triangular 570 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:37,389 object came down you know Colleen and 571 00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:39,970 Xu's was very helpful and busty Taylor 572 00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:43,870 Murray a weekly Idol list goes on and 573 00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:48,220 and you know even reg Presley and and 574 00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:52,840 yet it's I don't know what one has to do 575 00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:54,580 but of course I couldn't get any press 576 00:30:01,139 --> 00:29:57,279 it press attention at all on the book 577 00:30:02,310 --> 00:30:01,149 yeah I can't I just can't get it nobody 578 00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:02,320 that's crazy 579 00:30:17,749 --> 00:30:05,289 well it's severe it's almost like I've 580 00:30:24,269 --> 00:30:19,889 and you're getting so much information 581 00:30:26,730 --> 00:30:24,279 out that I don't like sometimes I'm 582 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:26,740 mindful of the fact that it's a bit like 583 00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:28,809 I mean because you're pretty well-versed 584 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:30,220 in the subject and you're a very 585 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:33,850 sensible blow very helpful man and it's 586 00:30:49,409 --> 00:30:35,850 just so you're well respected and 587 00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:49,419 unfortunately there's quite a few people 588 00:30:57,539 --> 00:30:55,360 in this business that well for the money 589 00:31:05,220 --> 00:30:57,549 I know you're saying not firing on all 590 00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:05,230 four cylinders as they say yeah the 591 00:31:10,919 --> 00:31:08,740 trouble is the press love it because why 592 00:31:12,930 --> 00:31:10,929 I can never understand if the if you 593 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:12,940 were a journalist it wouldn't matter 594 00:31:18,239 --> 00:31:14,529 whether you're a journalist reporter in 595 00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:18,249 the 60s you mentioned about 67 or 67 596 00:31:22,169 --> 00:31:20,409 where there was a huge wave of what was 597 00:31:24,299 --> 00:31:22,179 referred to as the flying cross not only 598 00:31:27,299 --> 00:31:24,309 in England but in the state and I 599 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:27,309 interviewed most of the major witnesses 600 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:30,850 from the 67 period I tracked them all 601 00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:34,170 down and sadly many 602 00:31:40,790 --> 00:31:37,800 I've passed away but that was that was a 603 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:40,800 fascinating time and of course you know 604 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:42,450 anything like that that God into the 605 00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:44,910 press could be explained away as Mars or 606 00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:49,830 Venus or whatever and clearly clearly 607 00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:52,400 wasn't but there was some amazing stuff 608 00:31:57,380 --> 00:31:55,260 but well strange because like you say 67 609 00:31:59,060 --> 00:31:57,390 that's when I saw my orange oval object 610 00:32:01,880 --> 00:31:59,070 going across the sky was it across it 611 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:01,890 was an orange oval so yeah yeah but all 612 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:04,530 you all you want to do like so many of 613 00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:10,410 us you actually need an answer and the 614 00:32:15,550 --> 00:32:12,360 very fact that the answers aren't 615 00:32:20,210 --> 00:32:15,560 forthcoming and that generally speaking 616 00:32:24,380 --> 00:32:20,220 the the subject isn't fitted with any 617 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:24,390 seriousness indicates that something is 618 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:28,910 afoot here something is is happening or 619 00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:31,710 whatever these things are the 620 00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:35,220 authorities are not anxious for it to be 621 00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:37,740 known about generally that that no 622 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:39,750 that's fair enough 623 00:32:45,530 --> 00:32:42,480 and what happens is as the years go by 624 00:32:49,070 --> 00:32:45,540 people's accounts disappear the sink 625 00:32:51,620 --> 00:32:49,080 into the Oblivion of history you know 626 00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:51,630 that the the second world war sightings 627 00:32:59,810 --> 00:32:56,880 the 77 way low so you know you it's just 628 00:33:02,510 --> 00:32:59,820 I mean look at Milton Torres 57 the may 629 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:02,520 57 because some of these sightings well 630 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:04,710 I was saying earlier I've done it again 631 00:33:09,290 --> 00:33:07,170 stab at cloth of timeline now the 632 00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:09,300 readers gonna have a bloody good 633 00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:11,430 eyesight because the timelines got be 634 00:33:18,410 --> 00:33:15,510 reduced to size 8 font it's a bit ok I 635 00:33:23,050 --> 00:33:18,420 don't know if you you you you if you 636 00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:23,060 hung some magnificent painting on your 637 00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:27,390 you know on the side of your wall you 638 00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:28,830 know you'd look at the painting you 639 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:30,600 wouldn't look at the back so much but 640 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:32,850 the back long all the timeline provides 641 00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:36,570 reader with the information supporting 642 00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:38,160 that position case so if you talk about 643 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:41,220 the mint Milton Torres United States Air 644 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:44,970 Force pilot may 57 and that was ordered 645 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:47,610 would to intercept two UFO 646 00:33:54,370 --> 00:33:50,970 and with a few seconds or 10 seconds or 647 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:54,380 something he was ordered to fire either 648 00:34:01,070 --> 00:33:57,450 discharges rockets at this UFO over 649 00:34:04,340 --> 00:34:01,080 civilian territory I bet that that is 650 00:34:06,260 --> 00:34:04,350 one of probably what hundreds of 651 00:34:11,419 --> 00:34:06,270 incidents like that at all 652 00:34:13,820 --> 00:34:11,429 you know so people in my opinion people 653 00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:13,830 want to know what happened on the 21st 654 00:34:19,490 --> 00:34:16,440 to me what happened on the 1st of May so 655 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:19,500 that's what I've done but unfortunately 656 00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:22,649 I'm about to discontinued the timeline I 657 00:34:32,260 --> 00:34:28,070 think between 73 and pop 72 to 76 658 00:34:34,899 --> 00:34:32,270 because the book gets too big you see 659 00:34:38,899 --> 00:34:34,909 I've been getting grizzly bigger or no 660 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:38,909 well I'm the problem we've discussed 661 00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:41,490 this before is that and I mean you're an 662 00:34:45,919 --> 00:34:44,040 agreeing with me that the next book 663 00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:45,929 should go out the order any books that 664 00:34:50,690 --> 00:34:47,730 go out should be in black and white and 665 00:34:54,649 --> 00:34:50,700 color giving the reader the option 666 00:34:56,030 --> 00:34:54,659 because many many people clearly I go 667 00:34:59,570 --> 00:34:56,040 back to what I said before you see 668 00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:59,580 because people don't know me they don't 669 00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:01,380 and they don't know about the books 670 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:06,390 they're not prepared to spend as David 671 00:35:11,090 --> 00:35:08,730 Bryant would send an evenings money 25 672 00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:11,100 quid or something on a book and I 673 00:35:15,260 --> 00:35:13,830 understand that but I'm I'm banging my 674 00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:15,270 head against a brick wall because I 675 00:35:21,050 --> 00:35:17,670 can't get the books market in anyway the 676 00:35:22,849 --> 00:35:21,060 books aren't about me they're not 677 00:35:24,770 --> 00:35:22,859 awesome now that they're about so many 678 00:35:43,150 --> 00:35:24,780 guys this is your sweat and blood all 679 00:35:47,870 --> 00:35:46,160 yeah just hold you I will see any 680 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:47,880 looking out the window an Apache 681 00:35:58,340 --> 00:35:51,330 helicopters just flown on I don't know I 682 00:36:05,359 --> 00:36:02,230 [Laughter] 683 00:36:10,750 --> 00:36:05,369 they do fly kites a fly quite low over 684 00:36:14,770 --> 00:36:10,760 here so go to the place you live in saxy 685 00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:14,780 and yes don't fall from the places that 686 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:21,060 that's right but ya should think of 687 00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:23,310 something else to say I mean I could 688 00:36:31,099 --> 00:36:29,400 spend the values you've got 11 volumes 689 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:31,109 of haunted skies books now haven't you 690 00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:34,730 you've read down the first four volumes 691 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:37,230 now I go you step into the first four 692 00:36:44,359 --> 00:36:42,210 four volumes are we gonna go do what I 693 00:36:48,020 --> 00:36:44,369 want to do I've got all most of the 694 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:48,030 stuff here I I have I'd like to start 695 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:52,290 volume 12 which is 1993 yeah I've said 696 00:37:01,490 --> 00:36:56,330 before that 1993 and 1994 would be one 697 00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:01,500 probably 800-page book 1995 would be one 698 00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:05,820 book therein lies the problem 96 97 98 699 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:09,750 99 I am NOT going past the year 2000 I 700 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:15,090 refuse to because I these things take an 701 00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:17,070 enormous amount of time if only people 702 00:37:22,730 --> 00:37:19,710 perhaps people think you can just chuck 703 00:37:27,050 --> 00:37:22,740 some text in whack of injuring but I 704 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:27,060 mean I know with the whole perspective 705 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:30,410 to that I'm working on at the moment 706 00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:34,170 it's like okay with each comment by 707 00:37:38,540 --> 00:37:35,910 Chuck well I've done I've put a picture 708 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:38,550 of chalking oh I've picked what morning 709 00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:42,210 me citations because when he doing the 710 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:44,400 various intervals of his career at 711 00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:47,130 various places you know not just 712 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:51,359 Bentwaters he's been regarded with great 713 00:37:57,020 --> 00:37:54,510 affection by his the guys that work 714 00:38:05,450 --> 00:37:57,030 under him and he's got so many he's got 715 00:38:10,010 --> 00:38:05,460 a whole whole side of the club you know 716 00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:10,020 I'm saying so many citations and awards 717 00:38:15,059 --> 00:38:12,590 which tells you one thing about the guy 718 00:38:17,219 --> 00:38:15,069 that he was well 719 00:38:20,189 --> 00:38:17,229 other guys that he worked with and I 720 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:20,199 mean I you know what he's like he's yeah 721 00:38:27,269 --> 00:38:23,130 alright they spoken though isn't he a 722 00:38:29,699 --> 00:38:27,279 bit introvert but he by God he knows he 723 00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:29,709 knows well he knows about it there's so 724 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:34,569 much respect for him and treated me 725 00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:36,729 apart from liking him more like him as 726 00:38:42,180 --> 00:38:38,920 well being respected like somebody's 727 00:38:49,469 --> 00:38:42,190 some you know quite rare nowadays I 728 00:38:51,630 --> 00:38:49,479 think it is yeah yes he said what he 729 00:38:57,449 --> 00:38:51,640 said about him he's been very helpful 730 00:38:59,579 --> 00:38:57,459 ease I I've seen him as offering if you 731 00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:59,589 like the facility through through his 732 00:39:05,609 --> 00:39:01,359 book or through our moon what do you 733 00:39:08,789 --> 00:39:05,619 want to call it the idea was and it 734 00:39:11,939 --> 00:39:08,799 would sell more books because of because 735 00:39:15,569 --> 00:39:11,949 of his name I know he is but yeah we we 736 00:39:20,779 --> 00:39:15,579 both know that it unfortunately people 737 00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:20,789 that buy UFO books are more turned on by 738 00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:24,670 garish stories of aliens and abductions 739 00:39:30,029 --> 00:39:27,369 and and all sorts of strange period 740 00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:30,039 things and of course those things are 741 00:39:35,699 --> 00:39:33,400 there but but people in the main try and 742 00:39:39,029 --> 00:39:35,709 capitalize through the publication of a 743 00:39:40,589 --> 00:39:39,039 Boyar by putting the often the biggest 744 00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:40,599 load of rubbish I've ever read in my 745 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:42,400 life but that sometimes people seem to 746 00:39:47,579 --> 00:39:45,729 like embellished sometimes up they don't 747 00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:47,589 really caught most reports are quite so 748 00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:49,150 a mundane aren't though you know and 749 00:39:53,130 --> 00:39:51,369 quite repetitive a lot of them but it's 750 00:39:58,799 --> 00:39:53,140 the comparison between those reports 751 00:40:03,329 --> 00:39:58,809 that you got look at I remember 752 00:40:09,630 --> 00:40:03,339 interviewing a guy how to do with the 73 753 00:40:12,359 --> 00:40:09,640 Berwyn mountains incident and I Margaret 754 00:40:13,739 --> 00:40:12,369 Frey was involved in that with can't 755 00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:13,749 remember his name now can't remember 756 00:40:21,870 --> 00:40:17,049 more but ain't been ASIMO quite a few 757 00:40:24,989 --> 00:40:21,880 times and clearly what you had there was 758 00:40:26,969 --> 00:40:24,999 the the evidence of the nurse and a two 759 00:40:27,630 --> 00:40:26,979 daughters of something resting on the 760 00:40:31,230 --> 00:40:27,640 hillside 761 00:40:35,790 --> 00:40:31,240 but over the years it's been built up to 762 00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:35,800 all manner of strange phenomena but but 763 00:40:42,990 --> 00:40:39,670 I interviewed a but a bloke and I I was 764 00:40:46,110 --> 00:40:43,000 very careful during the interview I but 765 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:46,120 basically this chap said that he was on 766 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:48,610 his way home with a number of other men 767 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:50,770 and stopped by the side of the mountain 768 00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:53,290 to have a pee or something whatever the 769 00:41:01,200 --> 00:40:56,430 stop for and then this thing appeared 770 00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:01,210 and dropped this is a family show job 771 00:41:19,110 --> 00:41:16,240 yeah to actually try and convince me and 772 00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:19,120 this is all documented is the fact that 773 00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:25,510 a flatbed lorry driven by the army 774 00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,160 turned up and a guy got out and when you 775 00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:32,560 picked up the UFO the Flying Saucer and 776 00:41:37,290 --> 00:41:35,440 put it on the back of the trailer and 777 00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:37,300 then just before they drove off they 778 00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:39,280 they remembered they haven't picked up 779 00:41:44,940 --> 00:41:42,880 the occupants so they whistled and as 780 00:41:46,590 --> 00:41:44,950 good as gold the alien came out of the 781 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:46,600 bushes and got into the truck with him 782 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:48,430 an office out in the sunset down the 783 00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:49,890 motorway now if you believe all that 784 00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:53,980 it's a family show well then you need 785 00:42:00,540 --> 00:41:57,760 you need to book yourself I'm sorry but 786 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:00,550 that's that's ball yeah people have 787 00:42:05,790 --> 00:42:02,410 exploited that story they've made money 788 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:05,800 out of it and and daddys 37 how it all 789 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:07,210 goes in this business 790 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:10,090 and also like what you say we don't get 791 00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:11,530 us wrong out there'll be what you and I 792 00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:14,260 believe in aliens don't we oh yeah and 793 00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:15,760 every day I cook they're not an everyday 794 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:18,640 occurrence that sort of drop down for a 795 00:42:33,290 --> 00:42:28,650 pier and the corner do you sing on the 796 00:42:38,460 --> 00:42:35,790 using conversation with Gordon Crichton 797 00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:38,470 from edges with flying saucer review it 798 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:40,660 to see him years ago and sadly passed 799 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:41,690 away 800 00:42:47,349 --> 00:42:45,650 but he pity he he said to me I was 801 00:42:51,130 --> 00:42:47,359 telling him something else I was bit 802 00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:51,140 amusing and he said my boy he said what 803 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:53,500 are you doing laughing it's not a 804 00:42:58,859 --> 00:42:56,210 humorous subject John you should know 805 00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:03,970 lambasted yeah I I agree it's not a 806 00:43:09,190 --> 00:43:06,319 humorous too big but if you if you you 807 00:43:11,650 --> 00:43:09,200 need a sense of humor in this job to 808 00:43:14,020 --> 00:43:11,660 counteract the hostility don't you oh 809 00:43:23,380 --> 00:43:14,030 yes so we've seen it quite a bit of that 810 00:43:26,589 --> 00:43:23,390 over a few years I met some lovely 811 00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:26,599 people over the years so you an inkling 812 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:29,359 oh yeah yeah yeah we talked about I mean 813 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:31,690 a lot of people we know about the aliens 814 00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:34,970 Rendlesham without going into that and 815 00:43:39,130 --> 00:43:36,710 what was it did the lanes well the ones 816 00:43:43,150 --> 00:43:39,140 that didn't land but they were used to 817 00:43:45,370 --> 00:43:43,160 paranormal but mr. jolly and Brenda 818 00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:45,380 Butler told me this story originally mr. 819 00:43:52,029 --> 00:43:48,200 jolly was the guy the exact the forest 820 00:43:54,789 --> 00:43:52,039 killing the rabbits and near the weapons 821 00:43:56,859 --> 00:43:54,799 storage area I said I actually his 822 00:44:03,730 --> 00:43:56,869 weapons storage not weapons support 823 00:44:05,799 --> 00:44:03,740 areas me weapon history and he saw these 824 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:05,809 he thought they were children they were 825 00:44:09,370 --> 00:44:07,730 moving through the forest but floating 826 00:44:12,819 --> 00:44:09,380 and he was quite frightened but he 827 00:44:15,099 --> 00:44:12,829 stopped observed and they were moving it 828 00:44:19,029 --> 00:44:15,109 he saw like this or brand monks moving 829 00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:19,039 about with cows on them and then after 830 00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:20,569 they'd left there was a sticky residue 831 00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:23,089 on the ground and he contacted the base 832 00:44:29,049 --> 00:44:25,430 and they sent some guys and they took 833 00:44:32,829 --> 00:44:29,059 samples of this and then what and then 834 00:44:34,750 --> 00:44:32,839 told him he was not to to do anymore he 835 00:44:37,329 --> 00:44:34,760 was to keep out of that area which which 836 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:37,339 he didn't I mentioned this to Chuck and 837 00:44:42,789 --> 00:44:39,890 Chuck said well I think I knew mr. 838 00:44:45,339 --> 00:44:42,799 Jolley he said but I I don't know about 839 00:44:47,380 --> 00:44:45,349 that particular story now so whether he 840 00:44:50,349 --> 00:44:47,390 does or is not telling I don't know but 841 00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:50,359 but so I've no doubt that because he 842 00:44:55,330 --> 00:44:54,260 said mr. Jolley was a very very genuine 843 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:55,340 guy 844 00:45:00,460 --> 00:44:57,650 and I've met a lot genuine people that 845 00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,470 that have seen aliens which takes me 846 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:02,720 back to when I first got involved in all 847 00:45:08,050 --> 00:45:05,090 of this I could settle for strange 848 00:45:10,690 --> 00:45:08,060 objects cigar-shaped objects rotating 849 00:45:14,650 --> 00:45:10,700 things flying saucers you name whatever 850 00:45:17,710 --> 00:45:14,660 like flying about but of course the very 851 00:45:20,110 --> 00:45:17,720 suggestion or inference that they had 852 00:45:22,810 --> 00:45:20,120 occupants was ridiculous I was not 853 00:45:25,660 --> 00:45:22,820 prepared to accept it and yet I can't 854 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:25,670 explain how many times and some of them 855 00:45:31,630 --> 00:45:28,490 have been police officers where they've 856 00:45:33,790 --> 00:45:31,640 seen what appears to be small figures 857 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:33,800 moving around the craft while it's on 858 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:36,050 the ground and I have many reports of 859 00:45:42,610 --> 00:45:40,850 that and from from all so many members 860 00:45:44,830 --> 00:45:42,620 of the public police officers and even 861 00:45:49,350 --> 00:45:44,840 pilots so you've got ask yourself what's 862 00:45:52,810 --> 00:45:49,360 up and I don't know I I just don't know 863 00:45:55,570 --> 00:45:52,820 when but they as we said you you know 864 00:45:59,920 --> 00:45:55,580 there are no doubt some very genuine 865 00:46:01,840 --> 00:45:59,930 incidents involving you know incursions 866 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:01,850 by these mission if you like the column 867 00:46:07,690 --> 00:46:05,290 machines with occupants and and then 868 00:46:09,370 --> 00:46:07,700 interaction with human beings it's 869 00:46:11,410 --> 00:46:09,380 happened many times isn't it 870 00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:11,420 yeah yeah I think I should be in 871 00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,950 subjects at this point because so 872 00:46:16,570 --> 00:46:14,480 there's probably people out there that 873 00:46:18,970 --> 00:46:16,580 don't know that you yourself or your ex 874 00:46:21,970 --> 00:46:18,980 CID weren't you so you're you had a 875 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:21,980 respected job when you didn't believe in 876 00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:25,850 UFOs at the time but in your retirement 877 00:46:30,490 --> 00:46:27,830 is when you've discovered the UFOs 878 00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:30,500 basically isn't it well yeah went that 879 00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:35,480 single trigger and the if you like that 880 00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:38,240 the members of public the the witnesses 881 00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:41,030 the believers they are the pit people 882 00:46:47,070 --> 00:46:44,110 that had something happened to them or 883 00:46:56,220 --> 00:46:47,080 which is provided the necessary trigger 884 00:46:59,590 --> 00:46:56,230 to you know to create this this this 885 00:47:02,230 --> 00:46:59,600 interest and a passion for the subject 886 00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:02,240 and you've made a lot of those witnesses 887 00:47:07,090 --> 00:47:04,310 the same as myself and basically they 888 00:47:07,630 --> 00:47:07,100 all some of them have been threatened 889 00:47:09,460 --> 00:47:07,640 that I 890 00:47:13,810 --> 00:47:09,470 sure that doesn't that now some of them 891 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:13,820 have been threatened and you know it 892 00:47:17,860 --> 00:47:16,010 banished the trigger and I suppose if I 893 00:47:20,650 --> 00:47:17,870 hadn't had the thing that triggered off 894 00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:20,660 my interest I would have well I wouldn't 895 00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:22,220 be talking to you now what am I not 896 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:24,380 unless we were going to discuss hope we 897 00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:26,330 could be discussing dogs or horses or 898 00:47:29,830 --> 00:47:29,120 something yeah you know I'm saying yeah 899 00:47:33,340 --> 00:47:29,840 absolutely 900 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:33,350 it's it's so so stranger and and we 901 00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:35,090 mentioned earlier that these things have 902 00:47:39,550 --> 00:47:37,760 been with us for well I think these 903 00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:39,560 things have been with us for thousands 904 00:47:46,590 --> 00:47:43,310 of years and I I'm fully convinced they 905 00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:46,600 will be here long after we've gone and 906 00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:49,730 surely to God before the human race is 907 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:53,030 rendered inoperable on this on this 908 00:47:58,360 --> 00:47:55,310 world somebody will have told us what 909 00:48:00,640 --> 00:47:58,370 these things are because oh yeah this 910 00:48:02,530 --> 00:48:00,650 makes you wonder if one day we will know 911 00:48:04,540 --> 00:48:02,540 it'll be like a common thing that there 912 00:48:07,060 --> 00:48:04,550 are people out there then we will travel 913 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:07,070 around the universe and we'll know each 914 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:08,570 other and everything it just makes you 915 00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:10,250 wonder what the future does hold for the 916 00:48:16,870 --> 00:48:13,070 planet and and others life forms out 917 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:16,880 there my you know you're right and 918 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:21,650 sometimes probably like yourself for me 919 00:48:25,750 --> 00:48:22,970 okay 920 00:48:27,820 --> 00:48:25,760 the world is a big place but is it a big 921 00:48:32,650 --> 00:48:27,830 race in comparison always got a lot 922 00:48:34,210 --> 00:48:32,660 smaller over the last sort of with the 923 00:48:36,190 --> 00:48:34,220 internet and everything else I mean we 924 00:48:38,860 --> 00:48:36,200 can now just chat with people that we're 925 00:48:40,540 --> 00:48:38,870 doing now on skype right across the 926 00:48:45,370 --> 00:48:40,550 other side of the planet it's it's so 927 00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,380 easy now to be passing information on as 928 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:47,200 I say I think that so that's been a big 929 00:48:53,500 --> 00:48:50,930 a big downfall of some people who come 930 00:48:55,150 --> 00:48:53,510 out with all these tales that not the 931 00:48:56,740 --> 00:48:55,160 Internet has been their big downfall 932 00:48:58,450 --> 00:48:56,750 because things are so easy to just 933 00:49:07,020 --> 00:48:58,460 google now how to find there huh 934 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:11,620 the day and I know that knife crime has 935 00:49:16,750 --> 00:49:13,970 been a major thing at the moment but I 936 00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,760 and I would imagine that knife crime has 937 00:49:21,610 --> 00:49:19,040 always been something of a major concern 938 00:49:24,580 --> 00:49:21,620 but it's 939 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:24,590 it's utilized at this particular time 940 00:49:31,060 --> 00:49:28,250 maybe to take the heat off brexit that's 941 00:49:33,850 --> 00:49:31,070 how I feel because I bloody clue what's 942 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:33,860 cut Naaman breaks it neither of you but 943 00:49:39,130 --> 00:49:35,660 every now and then something crops up 944 00:49:41,020 --> 00:49:39,140 and is nurtured I'm not saying knife 945 00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:41,030 crime is not a serious thing of course 946 00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:43,040 is a serious thing and a lot of people 947 00:49:49,990 --> 00:49:46,730 lost their lives but if you if you went 948 00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:50,000 on to battle 85 he went on to New 949 00:49:54,790 --> 00:49:52,430 Zealand or Australia or the place has 950 00:49:56,860 --> 00:49:54,800 looked up knife crime and murders and 951 00:49:58,450 --> 00:49:56,870 God knows what there'd be so much there 952 00:50:00,250 --> 00:49:58,460 that you wouldn't know about but you 953 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:00,260 could know about because it's available 954 00:50:04,630 --> 00:50:02,450 to know about but years ago yeah 955 00:50:07,090 --> 00:50:04,640 wouldn't a known would we know as far as 956 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:07,100 the old days of the Teddy boys there was 957 00:50:10,270 --> 00:50:08,810 so much of the violence and stuff around 958 00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:10,280 back in the 50s wasn't there was stuff 959 00:50:39,370 --> 00:50:28,550 like wait no boy rockers I was involved 960 00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:39,380 in Ringo Starr oh say it was a bit of a 961 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:51,790 [Laughter] 962 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,870 [Music] 963 00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:57,420 dressing is what friendship is all about 964 00:51:03,580 --> 00:51:01,520 and you know we we've known each other 965 00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:03,590 for some time now and trust each other 966 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:06,950 and it's great that I can chat to 967 00:51:12,610 --> 00:51:10,010 because it's very rare that I have the 968 00:51:15,610 --> 00:51:12,620 opportunity to talk to other people 969 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:15,620 about a subject that I am passionate not 970 00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:21,050 obsessed passionate around and cuz over 971 00:51:27,130 --> 00:51:22,400 the years I've done a lot of podcasts 972 00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:27,140 and um for me the the BBC want the BBC 973 00:51:35,290 --> 00:51:30,110 one show that was that was a 974 00:51:38,980 --> 00:51:35,300 that was a [\h__\h] let me spend all day in 975 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:38,990 the forest it's freezing cold and they 976 00:51:52,620 --> 00:51:49,970 showed about five minutes get paid it 977 00:52:08,800 --> 00:51:52,630 was it was it was a tripod it wasn't 978 00:52:10,330 --> 00:52:08,810 right it's a pinnacle in gun you're 979 00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:10,340 talking about that I will put a few of 980 00:52:19,540 --> 00:52:16,910 these [\h__\h] up on the collection of 981 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:19,550 those people will argue to the cows come 982 00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:19,850 home 983 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:24,290 that bloody lighthouse no it's all done 984 00:52:28,450 --> 00:52:26,450 in just now but people will start 985 00:52:31,570 --> 00:52:28,460 argument when you try and tell them look 986 00:52:33,700 --> 00:52:31,580 hang on and Chuck himself did say D of 987 00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:33,710 the day you know and response what we 988 00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:36,260 spoke about earlier the fact that there 989 00:52:40,060 --> 00:52:38,240 were a lot of civilian witnesses that 990 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:40,070 saw things there as well 991 00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:42,850 Oh years and of course not just 992 00:52:47,530 --> 00:52:45,110 1980-1981 as well because he was there 993 00:52:48,910 --> 00:52:47,540 till 1984 my memories on summer nights 994 00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:48,920 on you gotta be able to ride our 995 00:52:55,180 --> 00:52:52,250 evidence why you well I have additional 996 00:53:01,590 --> 00:52:55,190 evidence from a friend of David Bryant 997 00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:01,600 who but yeah Gary Baker's done yeah so 998 00:53:07,540 --> 00:53:04,250 that's that's the thing isn't it they 999 00:53:09,850 --> 00:53:07,550 deliberately lied and they deliberately 1000 00:53:12,970 --> 00:53:09,860 didn't want the if you like the truth to 1001 00:53:15,730 --> 00:53:12,980 come out but the truth of what that 1002 00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:15,740 that's the problem the truth I don't 1003 00:53:20,890 --> 00:53:18,830 know what the truth is but in my 1004 00:53:22,270 --> 00:53:20,900 immature what you say even shut doesn't 1005 00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:22,280 know what the truth is does he you can 1006 00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:25,760 only you can only say what he saw and 1007 00:53:34,810 --> 00:53:27,920 and theorized as to what he might have 1008 00:53:37,060 --> 00:53:34,820 seen I'm gonna I'm going to use a little 1009 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:37,070 word here that you've been an X Co demon 1010 00:53:42,339 --> 00:53:40,490 I'm going to use somebody else's so you 1011 00:53:44,019 --> 00:53:42,349 know what evidences 1012 00:53:48,309 --> 00:53:44,029 and you know where that came from Paul 1013 00:53:54,039 --> 00:53:48,319 yeah yeah it's uh yeah oh yeah yeah true 1014 00:53:59,079 --> 00:53:54,049 so I was just I know a big Delaney 1015 00:54:00,819 --> 00:53:59,089 yesterday that her father was was a guy 1016 00:54:06,099 --> 00:54:00,829 called Taft Thomas Detective Constable 1017 00:54:10,059 --> 00:54:06,109 that same place where I began my memory 1018 00:54:12,939 --> 00:54:10,069 and I just maybe laughed because in 1019 00:54:16,299 --> 00:54:12,949 those days before custody blocks are I 1020 00:54:18,699 --> 00:54:16,309 can remember one Detective Constable her 1021 00:54:20,049 --> 00:54:18,709 was quite short in statue I mean a lot 1022 00:54:22,299 --> 00:54:20,059 shorter than me and I saying something 1023 00:54:25,179 --> 00:54:22,309 but he used to have to stand on the 1024 00:54:30,489 --> 00:54:25,189 chair to interview thee the teenage 1025 00:54:31,929 --> 00:54:30,499 suspect it was about six football has to 1026 00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:31,939 be a certain height to be a policeman 1027 00:54:40,179 --> 00:54:37,910 job five foot nine Birmingham but I did 1028 00:54:43,779 --> 00:54:40,189 you know I tried for the met actually it 1029 00:54:45,609 --> 00:54:43,789 so I went down to the met and it was the 1030 00:54:49,479 --> 00:54:45,619 elephant and cut there was something of 1031 00:54:51,219 --> 00:54:49,489 the police place recruitment center near 1032 00:54:56,019 --> 00:54:51,229 the Elephant and Castle or some things 1033 00:54:59,709 --> 00:54:56,029 about forget that was like 16 1965 that 1034 00:55:01,719 --> 00:54:59,719 was Christ and I remember staying there 1035 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:01,729 that got to stay the night you see and 1036 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:04,249 or I did get any sleep because all I 1037 00:55:09,729 --> 00:55:07,729 heard was these the London police 1038 00:55:12,069 --> 00:55:09,739 officers moving in and out shouting 1039 00:55:15,399 --> 00:55:12,079 screaming in a drunken state you 1040 00:55:19,289 --> 00:55:15,409 imagined her like a a 20 year old kid 1041 00:55:21,309 --> 00:55:19,299 from from the sticks never never 1042 00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:21,319 experienced anything like it but of 1043 00:55:27,009 --> 00:55:24,169 course I height was like 5 foot 11 so 1044 00:55:28,749 --> 00:55:27,019 that was I you know I've got turned 1045 00:55:31,299 --> 00:55:28,759 around the next day but I never forgot 1046 00:55:34,089 --> 00:55:31,309 the Elephant and Castle yeah because the 1047 00:55:35,829 --> 00:55:34,099 the London area is where you've been I 1048 00:55:38,979 --> 00:55:35,839 know you recently you were going to try 1049 00:55:45,849 --> 00:55:38,989 and get an to London to have a go with I 1050 00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:45,859 talked to Theresa my OC suppose she 1051 00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:51,890 still be there well I mean I was raised 1052 00:55:56,910 --> 00:55:53,920 in London you know 1053 00:56:01,079 --> 00:55:56,920 in East India yeah mine moved to Essex 1054 00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:01,089 when I was 15 so in your left all my 1055 00:56:07,380 --> 00:56:04,089 friends behind and shows not about me 1056 00:56:12,569 --> 00:56:07,390 but just say I was born and raised in 1057 00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:12,579 the East End so I know about the show is 1058 00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:15,640 actually about us and it's about UFOs 1059 00:56:21,690 --> 00:56:18,640 can income us so much more and we told 1060 00:56:23,309 --> 00:56:21,700 them that UFOs the paranormal even 1061 00:56:26,609 --> 00:56:23,319 people overlays they've been abducted 1062 00:56:29,010 --> 00:56:26,619 and but the association between historic 1063 00:56:32,579 --> 00:56:29,020 historical sites of interest late lines 1064 00:56:38,010 --> 00:56:32,589 and in G line and UFOs it is all part of 1065 00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:38,020 that mix and it without these this 1066 00:56:43,319 --> 00:56:41,200 massive number of witnesses and they had 1067 00:56:47,549 --> 00:56:43,329 the courage to come forward over the 1068 00:56:51,809 --> 00:56:47,559 years which they have you know we'd be 1069 00:56:53,970 --> 00:56:51,819 worse off so yeah I'd like yourself I've 1070 00:56:59,250 --> 00:56:53,980 met some very nice people in this 1071 00:57:01,230 --> 00:56:59,260 business also met the opposite ones if 1072 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:01,240 it was kind of funny how we kind of got 1073 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:03,970 well they use the word thrown together 1074 00:57:08,490 --> 00:57:06,250 but it was kind of it was the Woodbridge 1075 00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:08,500 conference wasn't it for the Colonel 1076 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:10,329 Holt and there was a picture that was 1077 00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:13,930 taken off of a wall and I think it got 1078 00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:16,990 signed and there was a there was a there 1079 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:20,290 I think it was a wrong person name for 1080 00:57:24,809 --> 00:57:21,970 it was it was it was somebody with the 1081 00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:24,819 same name yes kind of how we got 1082 00:57:39,059 --> 00:57:37,510 involved together because it was a bloke 1083 00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:39,069 sitting next to me and he showed me this 1084 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:40,480 picture and I said where'd you get it 1085 00:57:43,799 --> 00:57:42,250 from and he said I've got it over there 1086 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:43,809 and I thought I thought they were being 1087 00:57:49,170 --> 00:57:46,450 handed out so we signed you know stupid 1088 00:57:58,559 --> 00:57:49,180 as I am but no then I like to learned 1089 00:58:03,690 --> 00:57:58,569 off of you though it would be neat but 1090 00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:03,700 that was over all ground but there's 1091 00:58:10,410 --> 00:58:07,569 strange things did happen at the 2015 1092 00:58:13,170 --> 00:58:10,420 I nearly said concert the conference 1093 00:58:15,239 --> 00:58:13,180 here yeah but those things will not 1094 00:58:17,789 --> 00:58:15,249 happen again in the conference that we 1095 00:58:19,890 --> 00:58:17,799 and mostly you have put together in 1096 00:58:22,219 --> 00:58:19,900 September because they won't be allowed 1097 00:58:24,749 --> 00:58:22,229 to happen but there are all sorts of now 1098 00:58:26,930 --> 00:58:24,759 strange things I'm not going into them 1099 00:58:30,259 --> 00:58:26,940 but but well we haven't really got time 1100 00:58:34,019 --> 00:58:30,269 immediately oh that's okay well no like 1101 00:58:36,959 --> 00:58:34,029 tight time goes fast I'll tell you more 1102 00:58:43,499 --> 00:58:36,969 John used to come back on again maybe a 1103 00:58:46,349 --> 00:58:43,509 month or couple of months time regularly 1104 00:58:48,329 --> 00:58:46,359 but yeah because at the end of the dates 1105 00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:48,339 two friends talking about a subject 1106 00:58:54,089 --> 00:58:53,049 that's very special to them and and the 1107 00:58:57,809 --> 00:58:54,099 end of the day you've done your homework 1108 00:58:59,309 --> 00:58:57,819 and I've done mine and you've done a lot 1109 00:59:02,849 --> 00:58:59,319 more than I if I'm going to admit that 1110 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:02,859 freely it's just a pleasure for me to be 1111 00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:04,690 able to talk to people like yourself and 1112 00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:17,529 then call you friend you know as I say I 1113 00:59:22,769 --> 00:59:20,559 will put all these links to your books 1114 00:59:31,140 --> 00:59:22,779 wander on the paranormal dimension saw 1115 00:59:33,180 --> 00:59:31,150 it on Facebook if you were speaking very 1116 00:59:37,370 --> 00:59:33,190 soon and I'm afraid I've got to leave it 1117 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:40,380 thank you and I hope you enjoyed the 1118 00:59:47,359 --> 00:59:44,930 show yeah yeah I've told you so but 1119 00:59:50,209 --> 00:59:47,369 [Laughter] 1120 00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:50,219 anyway oh yeah we'll be back